I mean, how can we fight the patriarchy unless we call women trained monkeys, amirite?

[ljwrites]

Stories about Sarah Palin often bring out misogyny in the political left, but the comments on this Jezebel article were fine for the most part: The readership focused on Palin's laughable antics and opinions, where there's more than enough fodder for criticism, instead of directing gendered slurs at her.

And then I came upon this comment, which was given in response to another user's riff off Palin's speech:




Text version:

(Another user, Dov Sherman, mocks Palin's speech)

hollylujah: *applause* Standing ovation for connecting the dots between Miss Failed Alaska and Miss Failed South Carolina! Lesson learned, folks: Quit asking pageant-monkeys to string unscripted sentences together.

L.J.: I don't agree with either of them, but "pageant-monkey" seems unnecessarily demeaning and misogynistic.

(Well, "I don't agree" is too strong. To disagree I'd have to understand what I'm disagreeing with, and I have no idea what 2007 Miss South Carolina Teen USA Caitlin Upton was trying to say in the rambling, nonsensical response that made her famous.)

I bristled at the implication that beauty-pageant contestants are all unintelligent, and I just object in principle to comparing a group of people to monkeys. So I made my objection known. That's how this "learning and growing" stuff happens, right? We talk to each other and expand each others' perception.

Hollylujah, however, didn't sound all that receptive:



Text version:

hollylujah: It's not.

L.J.: It's good to know that you're the arbiter on what I find offensive.

hollylujah: Y'know what's misogynistic? Pageants. Heeeeere she iiiis..... Miiiiiiiss A-mer-i-caaaaa..
[Picture of an organist with a trained monkey]

Mmkay, so it was to be a "distract and derail" sort of discussion. Since pageants are misogynistic, it was totally okay in hollylujah's mind for her to be misogynistic toward the women who participated in them. This is what the MRAs imagine all feminists are like, narcissistic women whose morality consists of using "patriarchy" as an excuse. "It's not my fault I'm misogynistic! How can I possibly keep a standard of civil discourse when PATRIARCHY."

I tried to point this out in a civil way:



Text version:

L.J.: I agree pageants are misogynistic. That doesn't make it okay to dehumanize the people who participate in them. Disagree with them, sure. Criticize them, sure. But by likening them to monkeys you're buying into these pageants' assumption that the participants are less than human.
hollylujah: No sympathy for the trained monkeys of the patriarchy.
L.J.: And there you go, a woman who does something you disagree with is no longer human. Thanks for the object lesson in hypocrisy.
By the way, your "trained monkeys of the patriarchy" include Oprah, Halle Berry, and Diane Sawyer. http://mentalfloss.com/article/26817/quick-10-10-famous-beauty-pageant-contestants By all means go around proclaiming that Oprah and Halle Berry are trained monkeys, but not before I break out the popcorn.

(Captured bottom of page to show there are no more responses)

It's been two days, and radio silence persists from my interlocutor. Pity, I was really looking forward to her attempts to defend agains that one. Either she's embarrassed and actually learned something (doubtful), or she thinks I unfairly silenced her by using the race card (likely). I mean, how could it possibly be hollylujah's fault that the women she called monkeys could include black women? It's so unfair! It can't possibly be that calling a group of women monkeys was offensive in the first place and pointing out that some of them are black only brought the offensiveness into relief. Noooo, it's because this L.J. bitch, handmaiden of the patriarchy, was conspiring to make hollylujah look bad.

MRAs' straw woman to the contrary, feminism does not stand for the proposition that all women are good and can do no wrong. In fact, placing women on a pedestal is a different kind of sexism. I know firsthand that women, including feminists, are imperfect human beings. Being a feminist, however, means upholding a certain integrity of beliefs and actions when it comes to gender equality. I do my own small part in upholding that standard when I can.

Comments

[lb_lee]

"Trained monkey of the patriarchy."

Sure hon, you're totally free of all patriarchy and never internalized ANY of those messages, you super awesome snowflake you. *rolls eyes* Not like those poor STUPID women, who don't realize they're participating in their own oppression, who are only worthy of scorn and disdain!

--Rogan

[ljwrites]

Internalized patriarchal messages--such as the idea that conventionally attractive women, especially the ones who have the temerity to benefit from it in some way, deserve to be objectified and demeaned? Nah, that can't be patriarchal at all. if the Immaculate Feminist, untouched by patriarchal sin, thinks this way, it must rather be the highest achievement of feminist thought attainable.

[lb_lee]

Yeah. Things like this are why I try not to believe myself above douchebaggery. It seems once you decide you would never do such a thing, you start doing it unknowingly.

--Rogan