Finn as a cult survivor
Feb. 7th, 2019 12:19 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
One of the criticisms Finn's writing has received is that he recovers too quickly from a lifetime of brainwashing by the First Order, and is overall written as too well-adjusted to be a victim of lifelong abuse.

It would take too much space to go into all of the ways Finn is still visibly traumatized in TFA and also TLJ, but I'd like to focus on one way that Finn has emphatically not recovered with lightning speed from brainwashing: The major moment in TFA that can be interpreted as Finn showing cult survivor behavior, that is, his speech to Maz and the others that there is no fighting back against the First Order and they all have to run.
In the comment that inspired this post,
talewisefellowship excerpted a passage from Combatting Cult Mind Control that talked about the duality that can take place in cult members:
Compare this to some of Finn's lines in the cantina scene:
To be sure Finn is speaking here as a former member of First Order, not a current one--but the certainty of the First Order's invincibility is very much a part of him in this early period of his escape, even if his conviction in it as a force for good no longer is. Cults are frequently about certainty in an uncertain world, and he shows that in spades here, though as a person who is caught on the wrong side of that certainty.
Not only can the audience see this shift in gear, the characters can see it too. Look at Rey's reaction here. She and Han both give Finn a look when he starts talking in this way, indicating they've noticed a change in his behavior. While Han is too jaded/experienced to show much consternation, Rey is increasingly agitated at Finn's change in demeanor and shows it.

To be sure part of her shock and upset is because she still thought of him as a Resistance fighter at this point, but the thing is, he was so convincing to her in that assumed role. He had been brave and skilled in fighting and running from the First Order, yet still showed caring and compassion. He was good at thinking on his feet and never gave up even in impossible situations. There had been nothing to suggest that he was, at heart, despairing of the fight and so certain of the First Order's victory.
Yet here he was, telling her with eerie certainty that the fight was hopeless and they all needed to run to save themselves. It must have seemed like the guy she got to know and had fallen for in such a short time had turned into a completely different person.
Even Maz comments on the change, if you take the novelization into account. After Finn's first outburst about the futility of fighting the First Order, she says:
In Chapter XIII of the novelization after Kylo Ren took Rey, however, she says:
This passage also describes Finn out of breath, tears glistening on his cheeks as he gasps to Han, "He took her!" I am going to die of the feels right now thanks
These reactions and lines of dialogue strengthen the case that Finn's pivot from a kind of calm despair back to a willingness to fight isn't inconsistent writing, but rather symptomatic of his being a survivor of the mind control cult that First Order indoctrination was for Stormtroopers like him.

It would take too much space to go into all of the ways Finn is still visibly traumatized in TFA and also TLJ, but I'd like to focus on one way that Finn has emphatically not recovered with lightning speed from brainwashing: The major moment in TFA that can be interpreted as Finn showing cult survivor behavior, that is, his speech to Maz and the others that there is no fighting back against the First Order and they all have to run.
In the comment that inspired this post,
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
[W]hen dealing with a cult member, it is extremely important to always keep in mind that he has two identities. . . . One moment the person is speaking in cultic jargon with a hostile or elitist know-it-all attitude. Then, without warning, he seems to become become his old self . . .
Compare this to some of Finn's lines in the cantina scene:
There is no fight against the First Order! Not one we can win.
You don't know the First Order like I do. They'll slaughter us. We all need to run.
To be sure Finn is speaking here as a former member of First Order, not a current one--but the certainty of the First Order's invincibility is very much a part of him in this early period of his escape, even if his conviction in it as a force for good no longer is. Cults are frequently about certainty in an uncertain world, and he shows that in spades here, though as a person who is caught on the wrong side of that certainty.
Not only can the audience see this shift in gear, the characters can see it too. Look at Rey's reaction here. She and Han both give Finn a look when he starts talking in this way, indicating they've noticed a change in his behavior. While Han is too jaded/experienced to show much consternation, Rey is increasingly agitated at Finn's change in demeanor and shows it.

To be sure part of her shock and upset is because she still thought of him as a Resistance fighter at this point, but the thing is, he was so convincing to her in that assumed role. He had been brave and skilled in fighting and running from the First Order, yet still showed caring and compassion. He was good at thinking on his feet and never gave up even in impossible situations. There had been nothing to suggest that he was, at heart, despairing of the fight and so certain of the First Order's victory.
Yet here he was, telling her with eerie certainty that the fight was hopeless and they all needed to run to save themselves. It must have seemed like the guy she got to know and had fallen for in such a short time had turned into a completely different person.
Even Maz comments on the change, if you take the novelization into account. After Finn's first outburst about the futility of fighting the First Order, she says:
I'm looking at the eyes of a man who wants to run.
In Chapter XIII of the novelization after Kylo Ren took Rey, however, she says:
Oh wow... I see something else now. I see the eyes of a warrior
These reactions and lines of dialogue strengthen the case that Finn's pivot from a kind of calm despair back to a willingness to fight isn't inconsistent writing, but rather symptomatic of his being a survivor of the mind control cult that First Order indoctrination was for Stormtroopers like him.
no subject
Date: 2019-02-06 06:34 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2019-02-07 06:09 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2019-02-07 01:58 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2019-02-06 10:14 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2019-02-07 06:16 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2019-02-06 11:35 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2019-02-07 06:16 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2019-02-07 12:13 am (UTC)(Much like fans often forget that Maz was talking to Finn when she says that line about "the same eyes in different people".)
no subject
Date: 2019-02-07 06:23 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2019-02-07 11:36 pm (UTC)Personally, I've never bought that Finn is inconsistent in any way. He has Fight Or Flight reactions, wanting to avoid violence when he has a choice but reacting capably when he or someone he's very close to are pulled into a fight. He goes to extremes, but that's consistent across all facets of his character. He loves quickly and deeply, and he hates with passion; he fights with all he has, and he runs fast. I think that also plays into how the movies portray him, swerving from giving him real nobility but also slapstick comedy. (But the slapstick something I wish Abrams hadn't added to Star Wars for any of the characters, as it's not stylistically consistent. But then, Abrams's camera work was also very Not George Lucas.)
It's a shame neither of the movies has done anything with putting Finn on the Jedi path. TFA diverged him from that in its final act, so we don't get to see his personality put to use in that way. Ah, well. Maybe IX will come with something at the last second.
no subject
Date: 2019-02-09 04:00 am (UTC)That said, my argument was not that this scene necessitates reading Finn as a cult survivor to make sense, hence the expression "can be interpreted as Finn showing cult survivor behavior" (emphasis added). That is, the specific ways he presented himself as he gave his assessment of the FO's capabilities, and the way others reacted to that presentation, seem to dovetail with what has been observed about cult members. All that is really required for that interpretation to stand is that it accords with and does not contradict what we see in canon. The fact that his tactical assessment is more or less accurate--though hopefully not ultimately, or Episode IX will be a depressing movie--is not a contradiction but an additional explanation in my mind.
I think you make a good assessment of Finn's character! I still hold out hope for some kind of Force-sensitive Finn; I really need to port over my speculative essay about Force-immune Finn. That and a Stormtrooper rebellion are my favorite speculations for IX.
no subject
Date: 2019-02-09 08:56 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2019-02-08 10:07 pm (UTC)...also I recently ran into stuff about how maybe the universe NEEDED the "firm hand" of the First Order, and god, it just made me want to pour bleach into my head. It was the creepiest fascist-y sounding stuff I'd seen and ugh!
no subject
Date: 2019-02-08 11:47 pm (UTC)Wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooow. That's fucked up
no subject
Date: 2019-02-08 11:54 pm (UTC)And the way they acted made me feel... well, I found myself thinking, "If Adolf Hitler adored queer kinky poly folks, you would've signed up without a second thought, wouldn't you?"
no subject
Date: 2019-02-09 04:05 am (UTC)That kind of Hot Take seems to be of a kind with Kylo Ren stans speculating that he will be a just and benevolent leader ruler of the galaxy and I'm like oh honey, no.
no subject
Date: 2019-02-09 04:27 pm (UTC)The funny thing was, this person HATED Kylo. They were a HUX stan.
(By the way, where did the whole stan term come from, do you know? I see it around, it seems to mean "sycophant fan" but I don't know if that's correct or where it came from!)
no subject
Date: 2019-02-12 01:20 am (UTC)I think it's a portmanteau of stalker + fan!
no subject
Date: 2019-02-12 06:49 pm (UTC)...man, that just makes it creepier. Thanks for the explanation though, Googling "stan" was so not going to work...
--Rogan
no subject
Date: 2019-02-08 11:47 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2019-02-09 06:00 am (UTC)